Chakras Discourses Seven chakras — 24 August 2017

In the ninth part of a series of 10, Osho answers a question with regard to “the fundamental difference between the language of expression of the man of the fourth plane and the scientist.”

Question 5: Why has the meditator who has gained the capacity for vision and subtle sight on the fourth plane – and many have attained this stage – not been able to reveal the knowledge of the moon, the sun, the earth and their movements, as the scientists have done?


Three or four things have to be understood in connection with this. The first thing is that many of these facts have been revealed by persons such as these, of the fourth plane. For instance, there is very little difference between the age of the earth as shown by these men and as shown by the scientists, and as yet it cannot be said that science is correct. Scientists do not themselves claim to be absolutely correct.

Secondly, there is even less difference in the information given by each of these two categories about the shape and measurement of the earth. Besides, even in connection with this matter it is not necessarily the case that those who have reached the fourth plane are wrong in their estimate. The shape of the earth is forever changing. The distance between the earth and the sun is not the same as it was in ancient times, and the same is the situation between the moon and the earth. Africa is not where it used to be; once upon a time it was joined with India. Thousands of changes have occurred and are still occurring, and many changes take place constantly. Keeping in mind these constant changes you will be surprised to know that people of the fourth plane have long ago revealed many of the discoveries that science is making today.

It should also be understood that there is a fundamental difference between the language of expression of the man of the fourth plane and the scientist. This is a very great difficulty. The man of the fourth plane has no mathematical language. He has the language of vision, images and symbols. He has the language of signs. As there is no language in dreams, in vision too there is no language. If we understand thoroughly we will know that if we were to dream at night what we did throughout the day we would have to choose the medium of symbols and signs, because there is no language there. If I am an ambitious person who wants to be above everybody else, I will dream I am a bird flying high in the skies over and above other birds. In dreams I will not be able to express verbally that I am ambitious, so the whole language changes in dreams. In the same manner, the language of vision is not of words but of pictures.

Dream interpretation began to develop after Freud, Jung and Adler. Now we can find out the meaning of a dream. In the same manner, whatever persons of the fourth plane have said still awaits interpretation. As yet we have not even been able to explain the phenomenon of dreams thoroughly; explanation of psychic visions is an altogether different matter. We must know the meaning of what has been seen in visions and of what people of the fourth plane are saying.

For example, when Darwin said that man has evolved from the animal he spoke in a scientific language. But if we were to read the story of the Hindu incarnations we would find that this is nothing but the same story told thousands of years ago in symbolic form. The first incarnation was not a man, he was a fish. Darwin also says that man’s first form was that of a fish. Now, when we say that the first incarnation was matsya avatar – a fish, this is symbolic. This is not the language of science: an incarnation and a fish! We denied this statement. But when Darwin said that the first element of life came in the form of the fish and then other forms followed, we readily agreed because it seemed reasonable to us. Darwin’s method and search is scientific.

Now those who saw visions saw the divine first taking birth as a fish. The visionary speaks the language of parables. Then the second incarnation is a tortoise. This creature belongs both to the land and water. Obviously, the transition of life from water to land could not be sudden. There had to be an intermediary state. So whatever creature evolved must have belonged both to land and water. Then gradually the descendants of the tortoise began to live on land, and then there must have been a marked separation from life in the water.

If you read through this story of the Hindu incarnations you will be surprised to note that we had discovered long ago what Darwin discovered thousands of years later, and in the right chronological order. Then, before the final metamorphosis, there is the half-man, half-animal avatarnarsinh avatar. After all, animals did not become human at one stroke; they too must have had to pass through the intermediate phase where there were half men and half animals. It is impossible that an animal gave birth to a human being. There is a missing link between animal and man which could be narsinh – half man and half animal.

If we understand all these stories we will know that what Darwin said in scientific terms, people of the fourth plane said long ago in the language of the Puranas. But up to now these Hindu mythological scriptures have not been properly explained. The reason for this is that the Puranas have fallen into the hands of ignorant, illiterate people. They are not in the hands of scientists.

Another difficulty is that we have lost the key to decipher the code of the Puranas. We do not have the deciphering code; hence, the difficulty. Now science says that man can exist on earth at the most for another four thousand years. The forecast in many Puranas is that this world cannot last for more than five thousand years. Science speaks a different language. It says the sun will cool down, its rays will diminish, its heat will diffuse, and in four thousand years it will get cold. Then life on earth will cease together with it.

The Puranas speak a different language. And if the Puranas give a time of five thousand years and not four thousand as the scientists say, it should be kept in mind that it is yet not decided whether science is absolutely correct. It can be five thousand – and I believe that it will be, because there can be a mistake in the calculation of science but there is never a mistake in vision. Science, therefore, improves upon itself day by day. It says one thing today and another tomorrow and yet another the day after. It has to change every day. Newton says one thing, Einstein says something else.

Every five years science changes its theories because it comes upon better solutions. It cannot be decided whether the ultimate in science will be different from the visions of the fourth plane. And if these do not coincide with each other it is not necessary to make hasty decisions on the grounds of what we know now through science and through what is told by the visionaries. Life is so profound that only an unscientific mind makes a hasty decision. If we examine the discoveries of science over the last hundred years we will find that all discoveries that are a hundred years old read like Puranic tales: no one is ready to believe them anymore because other and better things are discovered in the course of time.

The code that revealed the truth in the Puranas is lost. Now, for example, if there is a third world war, the first outcome of it will be that all of the educated, civilized class of people will be destroyed. It is strange that only the uneducated, uncultured people will remain. Some primitive tribes in India in the faraway mountains and jungles will go unscathed. No one will be spared in Bombay or New York. Whenever there is a world war it is always the best communities that are destroyed, because it is they who are attacked. Some aboriginal in Bastar, India, might survive. He might tell his children of the planes in the skies though he will not be able to explain them. He had seen them flying and that is a truth, but he cannot explain the how and why of it as he does not have the code. The code was with the people of Bombay, but now they are dead.

For a generation or two the children might believe in their elders, but later on they will ask in doubt, “You have seen them?” And the elders will reply, “So we have heard, so our fathers said – and they in turn were told by their fathers – that planes flew in the skies. Then came the big war and everything was destroyed.” By and by the children will question, “Where are the planes? Show us some indication, some sign.” After two thousand years the children will say, “This is all the imagination of our forefathers. No one ever flew in the skies.”

Such events have taken place. In this country the knowledge that was obtained by the psychic mind was destroyed in the battle of the Mahabharata. It is now only a story. Now we are suspicious of whether Rama could have flown in a plane from Sri Lanka. It is all a matter of doubt because when not even a bicycle remains from that age, then the airplane seems to be an impossibility. And there is no mention of it in any book. In fact, the entire knowledge that existed before the Mahabharata was destroyed in this war. That which could be retained in the memory was all that could be saved. Therefore, the names of the ancient branches of knowledge were smriti – traditionally remembered and written down later; and shruti – traditionally heard and then written down. These are collections of knowledge which were remembered and which were told; they are not an account of proven and tested facts. Someone told someone, then he told someone else, and all these things we have gathered and kept in the form of these scriptures. But now we cannot claim to prove anything from them.

Remember also that the intelligentsia of the world consists of a very small number of people. If an Einstein dies it will be difficult to find another to explain the theory of relativity. He himself said that there were not more than ten to twelve people who understood this theory. If these twelve died we would have books on relativity but not a single man who understands it. Similarly, the Mahabharata destroyed all the proficient people of those times. Then what remained became just stories. Now, however, investigations are going on for their verification, but we in India are unfortunate because we ourselves are doing nothing in this direction.

Recently, a place has been discovered that is about four to five thousand years old and which seems to have been an airport. There is no other possible reason for such a place. Such constructions have been found which could not have been possible without machines. Really, the stones that were lifted up the pyramids are as yet beyond the capacity of our largest cranes. These stones have been placed there – that much is clear – and they have been lifted by men. Either these people had elaborate machinery at their disposal or they made use of the fourth body.

For example, I shall tell you an experiment which you may try. Let one man lie down on the ground. Now four others should gather around him. Two should place their fingers on his knees one on each side, and the other two similarly under his shoulders. Let them put only one finger each. Then each should make a firm resolve to lift him only with his finger. They should breathe hard for five minutes, then hold the breath and lift the man. They can succeed in lifting this man with their fingers only. So the boulders of the pyramids were either lifted by giant cranes or by some psychic force. The ancient Egyptians might have utilized some such method; there is no other way. The rocks are there and they have been placed there: this cannot be denied.

Osho, In Search of the Miraculous, Vol 2, Ch 4 (translated from Hindi)

Read the whole discourse: Seven Chakras