A Day with Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh

Remembering Here&Now

Sarjano remembers in his memoir the events leading up to the Italian journalist Enzo Biagi interviewing Osho on 12 January 1986 in Kathmandu. The program was then shown on national television Rai Uno, on 28 January 1986 (video with transcription)

Watch on YouTubeTranscription below

Osho in Kathmandu

Excerpted from the book, ‘When A Real Lion Meets A Real Master’ by Swatantra Sarjano

[Sarjano uses the third-person form to describe his experiences.]

After the events in the USA, Osho decided to finally return to India, and after a short stop in Delhi he chose as his destination Kulu Manali, a small remote town in the Himalayan mountains, where naturally he went immediately to see his Master. […]

Before leaving, he was approached by a journalist who was working in a TV program anchored by Enzo Biagi, perhaps the most famous of all Italian anchormen, who told him that his director would like very much to have an interview with Osho for his program, and since he was going to see him now, he should ask him personally if he was willing to be interviewed by this Biagi or not.

He promised to do so as soon upon arrival and in fact, once he reached Kulu Manali, where Osho had taken shelter in a fantastic resort in the middle of a forest, this was the first thing that he asked, after his emotional namaste. He further explained to his Master that this Biagi was the most famous anchorman in Italy, that he had interviewed heads of states and most of the personalities on the planet, and that he seemed to him like a good fellow, truly honest, and with courage about his opinions, even if they were often going against the mainstream.

Osho told him instantly to bring him there and to be his interpreter, and meanwhile he got ready for the interview that he was supposed to have with him. […]

Once he came back to Italy, he got another visit from the emissary of Enzo Biagi, to whom he reported that the Master had given his consent to the idea of being interviewed by him, so he was invited immediately to meet the anchorman, in order to define with him the time and logistics of their departure.

The next day, Biagi and his troupe went to the Indian Embassy to ask for the necessary visas, specifying in their request that they were going to India to interview the famous Guru Osho; after one week they found out that the visas had been denied everybody, Biagi included!

He went out of his mind from this surprise, and anger, because he understood that the American Government was still doing everything in their power to isolate Osho from the rest of the world, even putting undue pressure on every Indian Embassy in the world, so that not only his visa would be denied, but denied even to all of those who want to meet him!

He immediately proposed to Biagi to make a big scandal about this ugly story, to write about it in every newspaper, to talk about it on television, and to expose all this medieval fascist story… but Biagi asked him to cool down and not to create any trouble, because he knew Andreotti, the Foreign Minister at the time, and that he would have a talk with him in order to solve the whole question one way or another.

While Biagi was involved in his mediation, he had informed Osho about what was happening with the Indian Embassy, with the result that the Master, who had already had enough of India and its attitude, proposed to everybody to quit and move to Kathmandu.

It happened in fact that in those days the entry visas of all those disciples who were taking care of him, such as his doctor, caretaker, driver, etcetera, were expiring, and when they went to the local authorities to ask for a simple three month extension, the visas were denied to everybody; hence all these people were supposed to leave the country within 48 hours!

The story of Biagi, plus this latest injustice, convinced Osho to leave his own country, and after two days he was in Kathmandu with all of his court.

Meanwhile Biagi, when he got to know that the Master had moved to Nepal, asked for a visa to Nepal for all his crew, which naturally was accorded to them immediately, and the next week they were all flying to Delhi. […]

This famous anchorman was really a great guy, and when Osho died a few years later he wrote a loving epitaph called “A Little Flower on His Grave”, which was published in an alternative magazine. In this piece he narrated his trip with Biagi to Kathmandu, of Biagi’s unexpected love for Osho, of his rationalizations and of his escape…

In reality he would have liked to call his piece “You’ll be back!”, but he was afraid that hardly anybody would understand it!

Excerpted from chapter 7 of Swatantra Sarjano book, ‘When A Real Lion Meets A Real Master’ available from oshoworld.comoshoviha.orgamazon.in – reviews and more excerpts on Osho News

Enzo Biagi with Osho

Transcription of video

Introduction by Enzo Biagi in studio (translation by Osho News): …[He suffered] from asthma and incurable back pains. It is estimated that his followers number about half a million. The first community he founded was in Poona, near Bombay. In 1981 he had to leave because the Indian tax authorities demanded $2 million in unpaid taxes.

He moved to the United States, to Oregon, and with the unpaid labour of 2000 followers created from nothing a perfect farm, and a model city with an airport, a luxury hotel and a university for meditators.

He is in big trouble here, too. Sheela, the beautiful secretary-treasurer, and according to some also his mistress, runs away with the cash and denounces Bhagwan as an exploiter and secret billionaire. They arrest him for violation of emigration laws and for other offences, among others, celebration of illegal marriages. Bhagwan abandons everything including 94 Rolls Royces which are auctioned off. With 900 million bail he goes free.

He takes refuge first in India, then in Nepal, and it is in Kathmandu that we visited him.

Biagi asks (translation Osho News): Mr Bhagwan, may I ask you a few questions? Sorry, who are you? A prophet? The founder of a new religion or a smartass as your enemies say?

Osho: I am not a madman so I cannot be a prophet or a messiah or a savior. All these peoples who have claimed to be prophets, messiahs, saviors are simply crackpots.

For the simple reason I don’t belong to their category because there is no God, and without a God you cannot be a prophet, you cannot be a messenger… messenger [of] who?

And you cannot be a messiah… representing who?

I am simply a human being and the people who think that I am a rascal raise a very significant question. […]

I don’t have any followers. I have millions of friends and millions of enemies. I love both, because both belong to me. In some way or other I am helping both.

Thank you.

Osho, The Last Testament, Vol 5, Ch 19 (excerpted by filmmaker)

Enzo Biagi with OshoQ: The first question is, what is your teaching?

Osho: I do not have any teaching at all. I am not a teacher in the sense that I don’t give any philosophy of life, any discipline to live, and programs to follow. I have a certain approach to life which I share with my friends, my approach begins with de-programming. That is a key word as far as I am concerned.

Initiation into my friendship means initiation into de-programming. Everybody is programmed by birth – either as Christian, or Hindu, or Jew or Mohammedan. The child is born innocent, but he is burdened very soon with hundreds of concepts, and he lives with those concepts his whole life. This is living a borrowed life; it is not authentic, it is not sincere, because it is not yours.

You have not discovered any of those things that you are trying to live. So my first thing is to help you get rid of all your conditions. Those who come to me, if they are Christians, will no more be Christians; if they are Hindus will no more be Hindus; if they are Mohammedans will no more be Mohammedans. I simply give them back their innocence, their humanity, their purity, their individuality.

So my basic work is destroying their conditionings. And it is a very simple work, because none of their conditioning is based on logic, intelligence. It is all superstitions. They have been provided with certain logical structures, but those logical structures are all phony. They are not authentic. For example, all the religions are based on the greatest lie in the world – God. No religion has been able to prove logically, scientifically, has not been able to give any evidence, and yet they go on burdening every child that comes on the earth with the idea of God. It is very simple to take away the idea; just I have to show to the person that your idea is enforced upon you. It is not your intelligence that has accepted it; it is your innocence which has been corrupted by your parents, by your teachers, by your priests, and all logic that they have given to you is phony. […]

Q: Why have you been in jail in America, and forced to leave?

Osho: Why Socrates was poisoned? Why Jesus was crucified? Why many attempts were made on the life of Buddha? They have not done much to me. They have simply arrested me without any arrest warrant, without showing any cause, why they are arresting me, without allowing me my birthright to call my attorneys. They did not answer me; their only answer was twelve loaded guns around me.

But I enjoyed the whole experience. They were far more kind to me than people were to Socrates. They did not poison me. They were far more kind to me than people were to Jesus; they did not crucify me. They simply harassed me for twelve days, from one jail to another jail. And it does not matter at all to me. In fact, it was a great experience. I always wanted to visit hell, but hell does not exist. America provided me the opportunity to visit it. And after twelve days, because there was no case against me… […]

Q: How do you explain your charismatic effect on people?

[…] Perhaps my sincerity, my truth, my authority behind it, becomes a charismatic influence on you; and when I say my authority, I do not mean that I am an authoritative man. […]

Perhaps that’s what impresses you as charismatic. Otherwise I am a very simple man. I don’t do miracles, I don’t make wine out of water because I am not a criminal. That is a crime; to create drugs out of water. I don’t pretend to be the only begotten son of God. I don’t say that you have to believe in me; on the contrary I say that I provoke you to think, to doubt, to be sceptical. Because I know that if you doubt, if you inquire, you are bound to find truth, that I have found. […]

Q: It has been said that in your communes there is limitless sexual activity. Is that true, and what is sex, and what is love?

Osho: In the first place, there can never be limitless sexual activity. Biology prevents it. It is not within your hands. How many times you can make love in one night? And you will know that it cannot be limitless. There is a limit. And it comes very soon.

It is absolutely absurd that in my community there is limitless sexual activity. In fact, there are so many activities going on that nobody has time for sexual activity. And I am not for repression; that does not mean that I am telling you to be licentious. When I say, “Don’t repress” I simply mean, “Listen to the body. It has a wisdom of its own.” […]

Love has a beauty. Sex is ugly. Sex is something like the roots of a rose bush. Those roots are going to be ugly. Love is like the roses; although those roots are continuously sending energy to the roses. […]

Q: What is your recipe for happiness?

Osho: Every child is born happy. Every child is born innocent and beautiful. And then something happens; all those beautiful children get lost; all their innocence is destroyed. All their joy is turned into misery.

Just look at a child, collecting seashells on the beach. And he is more happy than the richest man in the world. What is his secret?

That is my secret too.

The child is in the moment, enjoying the sunshine, the salty air of the beach, the beautiful expanse of the sands. He is here now. He is not thinking of the past; he is not thinking of the future. And whatever he is doing, he is doing totally, intensely; he is so absorbed within it he has forgotten everything.

And that is the simple secret of happiness. […]

Ending (translated by Osho News): In a Bergman film, at the conclusion, the main character says: The show is over and…

Osho, The Last Testament, Vol 5, Ch 20 (excerpted by filmmaker)


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