In an interview with Mike Wolfe of KBND Radio, Bend, Oregon, Osho answers about the construction of a genealogical, bionic person, about superman, and the evolutionary process, creating a man who needs no healing.
Is anyone here responsible for anyone else?
No, nobody is responsible for anybody else.
Is anyone in the world responsible for anyone else?
In fact they should not be. Only politicians and priests have been exploiting people and saying “We are responsible for you. We take the responsibility.” That is a strategy to make them enslaved. The priest says, “Don’t be bothered. You just follow the Christian dogma, have faith in Jesus Christ and you will be saved.”
They are taking their responsibility. Jesus was taking the responsibility for saving the whole of mankind, and he has not been seen for two thousand years – what a great savior!
I am nobody’s savior. I have saved myself, that’s enough.
Quite luxuriously too.
Quite luxuriously, because I don’t believe in any ascetic ideas. My idea about asceticism is that it is a psychological sickness, it is masochism. It is torturing yourself, and in a sick mind you can enjoy torturing yourself.
There are two kinds of torturers: the sadist who tortures somebody else and enjoys, and the masochist who tortures himself and enjoys. Both kinds of people fit together very beautifully. The best couple in the world will be a sadist husband, a masochist wife, or vice versa. Both will be of great….
A marriage made in heaven, right?
Yes, a marriage made in heaven, because one will enjoy torturing the other and the other will enjoy being tortured. So that is perfect, the best marriage I can conceive.
I am not a masochist, hence I enjoy everything that life can give to me. And I am not a sadist, so I don’t tell any of my people to torture themselves in any way: enjoy to the fullest. And I don’t give them any promises.
Just see the difference: I don’t give any promises for their future, after death, that they will be benefited, rewarded – I don’t even talk about the future, I simply talk about this moment. I cannot believe how people can even think of me in reference to Reverend Jones and Jonestown. This is just the opposite place.
Here we love, we live, we live to totality, and we try to squeeze every moment to the very last drop of its juice. I have never ordered them in anything.
And as far as death is concerned, I am life-affirmative. I want death to disappear from the earth, and there is a possibility if the idiotic politicians don’t go on wasting scientific genius in piling up nuclear weapons. There is a possibility, very commonly accepted by biologists, that a man can live for three hundred years very easily, and without any old age.
In India I have seen people, in a small part of Kashmir which is now under Pakistan – they have invaded that part; it is a very small place, a few thousand people – who live for 150 or 160 years. The oldest man in that community was 180 years old when I went there, and he was working in the field!
I asked him, “How long have you worked?” He said, “I don’t know how to count. People say that I have been working here for at least 150 years. When I was thirty, my father died, and since then I have been working.” And he was still young!
There are hundreds of people in the Soviet Union who have reached beyond 150; they also are middle Asian, from the other side of the Himalayas. Scientists think that three hundred years is very easily possible, and if more efforts are made, we can postpone death as long as possible.
Unless a man wants to die – because who would like to live for one thousand years? Perhaps…
I can’t figure out why the guy of 185 would want to keep living while he’s working in the fields.
You cannot. It is difficult to believe when you….
Then we’d have to change the whole structure of this planet. The entire planet would have to be changed.
No, nothing. All that we have to change is the way we have been producing children – only that has to be changed, nothing else, because the father’s cell and the mother’s egg have the program for the whole life. The meeting of those two decides the whole life of the person: how long he will live, what kind of nose he will have, what color of hair, what color of skin, what kind of diseases he will have, when he will die. The whole program is in the first two genes.
The only thing that bioengineering has to do is to change the program. And they ARE capable, they are saying they are capable of changing the whole program, that the child will not have any old age, that the child will live three hundred years, that he will not be vulnerable to all kinds of diseases, infections, that he will have the highest IQ, intelligence possible.
Would that be, in your mind, a healthy world?
It will be for the first time healthy. Up to now it has been just a sick and mad world. It will be really healthy when there are no diseases….
Well, would you do away at the same time when you talk about constructing genes and the DNA progress that’s being made, and procreation and the entire picture – would you do away with egos, would you do away with the competitive factor? Could you do away with all of the negatives like jealousy, like greed and things like that?
Yes. That can be done.
So you’re really talking then about a genealogical, bionic person, constructed?
Certainly. And that will be the dream of all those people who for centuries have been thinking of a superman.
Does the world really want a superman?
This world does not deserve it.
But this is where it has to start, or at least where our lifetime is concerned.
It needs it.
This is not “the price is right” and you suddenly open the curtain and there is a superman – it’s the developmental process, the evolutionary process….
Very simple. Within twenty years – because one generation of twenty-year-old young people, supermen moving around, not hippies – you will see the difference. Within twenty years – it is not a question of a very long time. And when we can give the child the intelligence of an Einstein, we can give him the aesthetic sense of a van Gogh, we can give him a face as beautiful as Alexander the Great or Cleopatra, why should we go on living with this mediocre, biological, accidental world?
And it is strange that whenever I mention it to people, they raise the question that it will be something inhuman, mechanical, but about other things they don’t bother. When you have cancer, then you don’t say, “It is natural. Leave it, don’t do anything, because that operation is going to be mechanical, that operation is going to be technological, and this beautiful cancer in me is natural.”
When we are ready to take man-made medicines for our diseases – and diseases come from nature – nobody bothers about it, everybody is willing for medicines, operations, surgeries.
Well, they accept it to heal, but not to create.
That is just the next step! If so much healing is needed, why not create a man who needs no healing?
I don’t know if I buy all of that part of it. I see what you’re saying but… I don’t know if I’m ready to start accepting…. We’ve gone from your bathroom to creating superman and that is a giant, quantum leap for me.
And for most people?
No. Not for my people! They are accustomed to…
But we’re back to the acceptance of what Bhagwan says….
No. That is not the way. They have been listening to me and they know that I give them every day a quantum leap that they have never expected. And they have been with me for a decade or two decades, and they had not been expecting that I will say this. They go on waiting for tomorrow morning.
And then they say, “What has he got for us today?”
Osho, The Last Testament Vol 1, Ch 18 (excerpt)
Published in The Last Testament Vol 1, as Ch 29