Interview with Veeresh by Geetee (14.4.2014)
When I watch Osho I’m in awe of his movements and gestures. I’ve never seen anybody so gentle. Even the way he moves his eye lids suggests that he’s utterly present and aware of each and every of his body movements. How do you think this is possible?
I remember many times sitting in front of him in darshans. He would answer questions and at some point I would get lost in watching him. Afterwards I would ask my friends: “What did he say?” Indians call it shaktipat. When the master opens his heart and your heart is open, then there is this connection. This is what you are describing to me. It is a heart to heart connection, not a mental connection.
The highest form of the senses for me is the heart sense. That includes intuition and all other bodily senses. Osho was a perfect example. He came in with this smile, radiance and his love and he just touched my heart. I was lost in this loving feeling.
You can’t define intuitive and radiant feelings, but you know they exist. This goes in line with the sense of spirituality and heartfulness, concepts of what everyone must feel like when they describe what they believe God is all about. It is not limited to the body. Osho was radiating so much love. If you are open to it, he touches you with every gesture, every movement. I was fixed in this world of amazement and love.
How do you live with all your senses?
I feel and experience my body. I feel my heart and everything else and I listen to my mind every now and then. In this internal dialogue, sometimes I put my mind aside, just space out and enjoy doing nothing and not feeling responsible for anything.
The key for me is to live from my heart. That feeling is fulfilling for me. I know the way there. Most people get there through meditation. I have a different way. I meditate in every situation by being present with all my senses in the moment.
There are the normal senses, seeing, smell, taste, hearing, touch and there is this area, where shaktipat falls in. It is a level of resonance and intuition. That is more difficult to explain. I see the heart as the centre of the senses and I see the gut feeling as part of that. I don’t want to make a division. It all comes from inside of me.
The resonance from my heart allows me to feel outside of my personal reality.
When I used to walk the streets as a junkie, I had this radar going. I knew, don’t go down this street, take that street. I was right most of the time. This intuition kept me surviving. It tells me what is good for me, and lets me avoid what is not good for me.
I have my mind that is talking all the time, and I am feeling my heart. Sometimes I entertain the mind and sometimes I just sit there and smile.
How did you develop getting into your heart space?
I learned it. The teachers that turned me on the most in my life were the teachers that I could feel. It was not what they were saying or the subject, but what I could feel. They would touch me with their being. In the therapeutic community I was in for addiction, I had an Italian director. I was so impressed by him because he was a feeling person. When he walked down the hallway I would be shy and look somewhere else. He would just grab me, hug me, squeeze my cheeks and smack me lovingly. He treated me like a father. I was attracted to that and learned this way of being from him.
My father was totally into his feelings. When I entered our house and I was late, I would feel the whole house freezing cold. He would be sitting there, lower his newspaper and look at me. I knew this was a whole conversation. “You are late, you little fuck.” But he didn’t say anything. I could feel he was not happy with me. My mother was also into her feelings. She didn’t care so much about making a beautiful house, she was more into food. She wanted me to eat. If I ate, I felt her love for me and that I was alright.
How did you apply this to yourself?
Geetee, the key for me is that I have always been open to look at myself. No matter what the technique, the approach, or the school, I always want to see who I am in any given situation. I never want to stop that.
Some people say you are 75 years old, it’s enough of searching. Why don’t you just retire? Life for me is an exploration. I had a teacher called Ior Bock from Helsinki. He gave me one line: “Always keep it open.” I love that.
He would always tell his friends: “Keep it open and keep searching. Go to the bottom of things.” That gave me inspiration. I learned to be flexible and not to get fixed on anything.
The most fulfilling experiences I have had were and are my love relationships. Through them I have learned to love myself. I have done many things and a lot has happened to me. But if I look at who I am today, I’m a loving human being. I do not set restrictions for myself. I knew the concept but to own that I’m lovable took a long time. Today I don’t have to pay a price to anybody in order to feel loved.
I have experienced that the more I open my heart, all my senses are heightened. Sometimes I even know what is going to happen in the next moment or what a person is going to say or do. I call that listening to my heart and my intuition. How do you see this?
I see the whole body as a sensory energy force. I understand and I accept that the heart is the centre. It is the battery and everything else gets charged by it like light bulbs.
What I felt confused about was whether a sense came from my heart, my gut, my libido, or if it was my mind that was telling me something. At some point I stopped dividing it because it got too confusing for me.
I am a complete energy field. Sometimes it is easy to say where the sense comes from and sometimes it is not.
Once when I was living in The Hague I had this urgent need to go to New York. I arranged a ticket but something happened and it got postponed to the next day. I flew to New York and I remember asking my mother: “How is my father?” She couldn’t answer me and I knew that something was wrong. She said: “He is in the hospital, speak to your uncle.” When I met my uncle, who was a doctor, I found out that my father had died the day I was scheduled to arrive. I was shaken up.
This energy force, this resonance cannot be explained. According to a school called ‘Heartmath’, the electromagnetic resonance of the heart is several thousand times greater than the one of the mind.
The energy force of the heart is so great, that you can send energy around the world and heal people without them even knowing it. We don’t know how it is possible but we know it is.
I sit in my house and think of my son Rishi who lives in Brazil and I smile. I send him good vibrations; I transfer my energy to him. It has nothing to do whether he is aware of it or not. I know my energy reaches him.
The more I’m in touch with my heart I find that I seem to touch other people’s hearts on a deeper level. Can you comment please?
You are shaktipating everybody. You walk into a room with a smile and good intentions. You might have a lot of things on your mind, but you focus on doing your best and sharing your love. You open your heart and people say, “Wow.” They can feel you. That is what I was saying earlier, you’re allowing your heart to resonate your love. You are doing what Osho does. Then people look at you, feel you and smile.
One of the things I am coming to terms with is appreciating people’s individual way of being. On my last trip to India we arrived at a centre and there was a wedding band playing. I remember getting out of the car thinking, “Who is getting married?” Then I realized they were playing for me. The people welcoming us were putting flowers around my neck and touching my feet. They were referring to me as a master and guru and I was thinking, “Wow man, what an expectation.” I remember feeling a little uncomfortable and awkward. Then I realized it is their way of expressing their appreciation.
It is a road I am not familiar with, but I said to myself, “All right, why not? I’ll play master and guru. Guru means the one who takes you from darkness into light. That is what I do, so I might as well own that title.
At the end it is energy going back and forth, giving and receiving love and appreciation.
Is there anything else you would like to say to complete the interview?
I remember being in London, going to a seminar by a Brazilian healer. The person to be healed lay down on the table on stage. The healer opened up the person’s shirt and started transferring his energy to him. Suddenly he picked up a knife and cut him open. He put his hand in there and started pulling out things from the person’s gut. I couldn’t believe it. Then he moved his hand very slowly over the cut and this open wound started to heal right in front of our eyes. How was this possible? Was it trick photography? We were all trying to explain it. Then we were told that his energy is so strong, that he can accelerate healing.
I am fascinated all the time. I want to see and learn more about how we move our energy and how our energy can transform the world.
I like putting my head on a tree. When I relax, I can feel its vibrations.
Previously I would not have done that. I thought if I explain this to anybody they would say, “Oh, you are talking to trees. This is the early form of schizophrenia.”
Today I have learnt from the Elfin Shaman Dusty 13th, that trees communicate with pictures. So, I put my head on a tree, felt what the tree was saying, and I got a picture of a smile.
I remember listening to Osho saying that the basic energy is sound. Matter is composed of sound. The tiniest micro particle is made of sound. We are all sound, we are all energy. I’m happy that I have always been a feeling person rather than a mental person.
I am also happy that you are a feeling person.
Yes, it makes me friendlier.
This interview was first published in its German translation by Osho Times (oshotimes.de)
Veeresh, after being a drug addict in his youth, entered a rehabilitation program at 28 where he began his involvement in human growth. He graduated as an Addiction Specialist. In 1974 he met Osho and in 1978 he founded the Humaniversity with the aim of training therapists and people who work with people. He is an innovative therapist and a compelling and inspiring teacher, whose work goes far beyond therapy. He has created Social Meditations, including the Humaniversity AUM Meditation. Veeresh left his body on 27th January 2015.
Geetee was born in Germany and took sannyas on the Ranch in 1983 at the age of 10. He was a renowned DJ in the Hanover Sannyas Discotheque before he came to the Humaniversity. Geetee became a Humaniversity Therapist in 1998. He is currently Public Relation Manager, Master Staff Trainer, Encounter Trainer, Therapist Training Counsellor, Tan-Ju Trainer. He loves drumming, Djing, club music and high energy. He leads workshops in emotional release, personal power and relating.