After the seventh there are no bodies

Discourses Seven chakras

In the seventh part of a series of 10, Osho answers three questions and speaks on ‘shaktipat’ and his preference for direct grace.

Seven chakras

Question 2: You have enlightened us about the seven bodies. Could you tell us the names of some individuals – ancient or modern – who have attained the nirvana body, the cosmic body and the spiritual body?

Do not bother about this. It serves no purpose; it is meaningless. Even if I tell you, you have no means to verify it. As much as possible, avoid comparing and evaluating individuals because it serves no purpose; it has no meaning. Drop such concerns.

Question 3: Do those who reach the fifth and following bodies again assume physical forms after death?

Yes, it is true. One who attains the fifth or the sixth body before death is reborn in the highest celestial realm, and there he lives on the plane of the devas. He can stay in this realm as long as he likes, but to attain nirvana he has to come back to the human form. After attaining the fifth there is no birth in the physical body, but there are other bodies. In fact, what we call devas or gods signifies the kind of body that is obtained. This type of body is obtained after reaching the fifth body. After the sixth body, even these will not be there. Then we shall obtain the form of what we call ishwar, the supreme being.

But all these are still bodies. What type is a secondary matter. After the seventh there are no bodies. From the fifth onwards the bodies become more and more subtle until they reach the bodiless state after the seventh.

Question 4: In a previous talk, you said you prefer shaktipat to be as close to grace as possible – that it is better if it is so. Does this mean that there is a possibility of gradual progress and development in the process of shaktipat? In other words, is there a likelihood of qualitative progress in shaktipat?

There is every likelihood. Many things are possible. In reality, the difference between shaktipat and grace is great. Fundamentally, only grace is useful and without a medium it is at its purest, because there will be no one in between to make it impure. It is just like when I see you directly with my own eyes: your image will be the clearest. Then I put on a pair of spectacles: vision will not be that pure, because now a medium has come in between. Now there could be many varieties of mediums – pure, impure. A pair of spectacles could be coloured, another transparent, and the quality of the lens itself will vary.

So when we obtain grace from a medium there are bound to be impurities and they will be of the medium. Therefore, the purest grace is that which is received directly when there is no medium. Now, for instance, if we could see without the eyes it would mean purer vision, because even the eyes are a medium and are bound to cause some hindrance. Someone may have jaundice, someone may have weak eyesight, someone may have some other eye trouble – so these are the difficulties. One whose eyesight is weak will find the medium of a particular pair of glasses very helpful. It may perhaps give him a clearer vision than his unaided eyesight, and so the spectacles will have become one more medium. There are now two mediums, but the second medium compensates for the weakness of the first.

In exactly the same manner the grace that reaches a person through another gathers impurities along the way. Now if these impurities are such that they have a reverse effect upon the impurities within the seeker, these both will compensate each other. Then what will happen will be nearest to grace. But this will have to be decided separately in each case.

Therefore, my preference is for direct grace. Do not bother about a medium. If at some time it is necessary in the course of life the glimpse can come through a medium also, but the seeker should not worry or be anxious about this. Do not go begging, because as I said, then the giver is bound to turn up. Then the more dense the medium the more adulterated will be the effect. The giver should be such that he is not conscious of giving; then shaktipat can be pure. Even then it is not grace. You will still need to receive grace directly without a medium. There should be no one between you and God; there should be no one between the divine and you. And this should always be in your mind. This should be your longing and this should be your search. Many happenings will take place on the way, but you are not to stop anywhere; that is all that is required of you. And you will feel the difference. There are bound to be qualitative as well as quantitative differences, and the reasons will be many.

Shaktipat can take place through a medium who has attained the fifth body, but it will not be as pure as that which would come through a person of the sixth body, because his asmita, his am-ness is still intact. The ‘I’ is dead, but the ‘am’ still remains. Now this ‘am’ will still feel self-pleasure. In a person of the sixth body the ‘am’ also has disappeared; there is only the Brahman. Then the shaktipat will be purer. Yet some illusion remains, because the state of non-being has not yet been reached even though the state of being has been. This being is also a very subtle veil – very fragile, very transparent; all the same, it is there.

So shaktipat through a person of the sixth body will be better than that which comes through a person of the fifth body, and it will be very near to direct grace. However close it may be, the slightest distance is, after all, a distance. And the more priceless a thing, the more even the slightest distance becomes a great distance. So invaluable is the realm of grace that even the most subtle veil of being proves to be a barrier.

Now the shaktipat obtained from a person who has attained the seventh plane would be the purest – but still it will not be grace. The purest form of shaktipat descends through the seventh body – the purest. Here shaktipat will reach its ultimate state, because there is no veil as far as the medium is concerned: he is one with the void. But as far as you are concerned, there are barriers. You will consider him as a human being all your life; your veil will cause the ultimate barrier. He is one with the void; he is without any barriers – but you will look upon him as an individual. [Answer to be continued in Part 7.]

Osho, In Search of the Miraculous, Vol 2, Ch 4 (translated from Hindi)

Read the whole discourse: Seven Chakras

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